attic ventilation without soffits

Solution: Install air chutes or clear them if they're clogged (Photo 1). Best of all, Atlas ventilation products are eligible components of the Atlas Signature Select Roofing . Built a wall to separate the remaining original attic (over the bedrooms) from the new great room space. Especially hard driving rain that is whipped about by heavy winds can enter the roof vents. However, there is no daylight through the soffit vents when I look through them from inside the attic (with attic lights off). Center nails between rafters 18 in. https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/IRC2018P7/chapter-8-roof-ceiling-construction. I have a new 10 x 20 She-Shed ready for insulation. If this is the case. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. Or, should I suck air out both ends and allow the fans to suck conditioned air to provide ventilation? More info here: Basics of Attic Ventilation. Remember, what really matters is doing everything you can to make sure that the ceiling under the insulation has no air leaks into the attic, and this is a good practice whether or not you have attic ventilation! One wants to add the ridge vent. Even without soffit venting, it is important to provide an air gap at the soffitlevelto help keep the roof deck dry. Thanks! I am a mechanical engineer and have a basic knowledge of HVAC systems but I learn continuously to make myself the best blogger in that space. This characteristic also makes it extra great for attics that are difficult to get around in or in attics that have lots of gaps to be filled on top of existing insulation. You want to see which of these is going to work best for your attics particular personality and then move forward with purchasing. This is a huge energy waster that I discuss more in this article: Comfort and Energy Efficiency Tips. If the ceiling feels warm, it indicates that the attic is storing warm air. Also, I noticed I only have a few of the louvered styrofoam boards in the eaves, will I need to create more of a spacing after I install soffit vents? Even more, it is going to do a more effective job at insulating those spaces. Can you increase the size of the gables so they can have more free area for the air to come in/go out? My formerly cozy house is now very chilly and the heater is running continuously. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Does this sound correct? I had an old roof replaced this past Sept. 35+ years old leaks occured that started the roof project. The vents are intended to allow cold air into the attic, reducing the temperature of the roof. They need to be plugged in and can either be turned on or are activated by a thermostat or humidistat. If you do not know what this is, either do a little digging or hire someone to get the job done quickly. I have a 1950s cape cod. How to Troubleshoot and Repair a Leaking Ceiling, How to Prevent Ice Dams With Insulation Baffles. Hi Ed, My home is English Tudor styled and has no overhang/soffit. ft. of ventilation area at the soffits. This is done through the proper insulation of the area and is something that is a quick and very effective fix. More info here: RoofingFoil For Metal and Tile Roofing. After this, get the measurements for your attic and get to buying. Also, I wanted to confirm that removing the attic ventilator fan is the right move. Use a passive system and you wont have issues with sucking air out of your home (or chimney). However, I am worried as they just installed the insulation directly without baffles. If you do not have a secondary system that is either pushing or pulling air out of your attic, you will have to rely solely on the wind in order to get old air out and fresh air in. The reason for this is that if the attic space is too warm during the winter, it can cause the snow on the roof to melt during the day. Photos 1 - 6 show how it's done. Get help with your home improvement projects. The standard intake vent for attics is a soffit vent (also sometimes referred to as an eave vent) and it allows for air to enter the attic down low, near the eaves. It does not have soffit vents, but does have gable vents and an attic ventilator fan. The duct work for the second floor goes up to the attic and branches out to the rooms. Intake air is critical to maintaining a proper flow of air throughout the attic space. On a small shed that size, a ridge vent wont make a difference compared to the existing gable vents. UPGRADE PICK: Natural Light Solar Attic Fan. Instead, plan on ventilating the finished attic space with rafter venting. If you go this route, you will need additional vents to allow the air to get OUT (I recommend you use static vents for this purpose). There are no soffit vents, so Im not sure what the intake design was; air seemed to just pass through from end to end. I have a vaulted ceiling in a bedroom that terminates at the wall where the attic is. For proper ventilation you need some air intake relatively low in the attic, or across from one another to get a cross-breeze action. from the roof's peak. Adding airflow will help drop the air temps in the garage, so if you plan on using it to work in, that would be a good idea. Take a look at this article I wrote about the basics of attic venting and see if that doesnt clear up some of the confusion: Attic Ventilation 101. Attic fans generally range in the $100 to $400 range, depending on the quality and brand. After you have removed the inch, simply attach the drip edge and you are in business. You can also invest in gable venting or shingle venting to increase air flow inside the attic and improve attic ventilation. Because hot air rises, if you have an improperly insulated attic, that hot air is able to escape through the attic and thus, out of your home. Install a ridge vent along the roof peak so that the air has somewhere to exit the attic space. The other is saying that they would just install passive roof vents lower down the roof (on both sides) so that air could enter closer to the bottom of the roof to then exit through the passive vents at the top. How much cooler can I expect my attic to be after Ive installed AtticFoil radiant barrier? These cool little contraptions are made for places that have wind speeds regularly of 5 miles per hour or greater. feet. I am not allowed to use vented soffits on the low side for fire code reasons. The key is having plenty of INTAKE air coming in lower, typically via the soffits. TOM: Alright. I agree with the installers recommending passive roof vents lower down the roof (on both sides) so that air could enter closer to the bottom of the roof to then exit through the passive vents at the top. If you dont have soffit vents, we recommend you add some other vents in the lower part of the attic that can function like soffits. Is this a good plan? The next winter, it was humid in the attic, so fan was on, furnace turned on, and hot water heater was heating. They work as intake and exhaust vents depending on which way the wind is blowing, so they do have a nice dual function. You made no mention of converting the attic space into livable space, so that does not make sense to add it there. Yes, with or without air FLOW, a radiant barrier can still reflect radiant heat can and reduce the heat entering the attic. Heating all those spaces can cost a small fortune and you do not want to constantly wonder if the heat is staying in your house or escaping through the roof (because of course, heat rises). We are leaning toward (2) above but would really like an expert opinion. Homes that do not have a gable roof or space for soffit vents are generally designed with shingled intake vents or roof edge vents, positioned near the bottom of the roof. I was thinking when we replace the roof, we should install a ridge vent. Our current roof can not have soffits. Cons Most effective when used with a ridge vent Homeowner tend to cover them with insulation, which blocks the airflow BEST SOLAR OPTION: iLIVING Solar Roof Attic Exhaust Fan. We waited another year and then added insulation from R7 to R38. Drive nails up through the sheathing and shingles to mark roof air vent locations. Intake vents are typically positioned on the lowest parts of the roof, under the eaves, though your home may also have shingled intake vents installed on a lower part of the roof, or even gable vents installed high on the sides of the home. Manage Settings Move the flex tubing (from bathroom fan) to exit via a new hole a few feet below the existing gable vent. I have a split level home with a gable roof. Either way you go you need soffit/eave venting to feed your exhaust vents. I had additional blown insulation added, although I was told by the insulator that my R value was already quite good and that things appeared to be sealed properly in the attic. There are several different styles/brands. Various exhaustvents can be used in conjunction with low gable vents and eye-brow inlets. I do have blown in insulation in the attic. Will this config move air? So we did. Bill, I would discuss these issues with your roofer and ask them what options you have with the new roof. The new ridge vent contributes to attic depressurization, and the result is that more conditioned air is pulled through the ceiling leaks, raising your energy bills. If things are working well as they are, I would leave it be. They work much like a box fan placed in a window on a hot summer day. Gable vents are not as horrifying as they sound. Should I be worried for possible mold growth down the line? The ductwork has been sealed and insulated. HomeShowRadio 7.29K subscribers Subscribe 38 Share 7.4K views 2 years ago Get help with your home improvement projects. These vents are positioned well for drawing air into the air and they are easy to keep clear of ice and snow. Loose insulation is used for those really pesky areas that are hard to cover. Just keep an eye on things and try to crack the door open when possible. However, having more intake vents can help too. There's a type of vent called a drip-edge vent. Does this make sense and do you have any suggestions that would help? Thanks. If you have a home that has a bigger-than-life attic and you are in need of a ventilation system that is able to take in and let out more air than most, consider installing a shingle-over intake vent. This can be a great solution for small spaces that dont have secondary ventilation systems. Too much spacing and your insulation efforts could be all for not. Continue reading to see the seven ventilation alternatives for homes without soffit vents, the ways attic insulation can affect attic ventilation, and ways to insulate your attic on your own. Original design had an attic above the ceiling; attic was ventilated with passive gable vents on each end. If its a gable style roof, Id go with ridge vents. The total venting space should equal 1/150 of the floor . A dry, well-ventilated attic prevents mold from developing both inside the attic and in the living areas below. You'd have to extend or actually reshingle the bottom layer of shingles at the edge. If you have a finished attic or an attic space that you are planning on finishing, then wall gable vents and roof vents aren't the best option. Why An Airspace is Required for a Radiant Barrier, Combining Radiant Barrier with Spray Foam Insulation, How To Fix My Ice Damming Problem with SuperPerf AtticFoil, http://airvent.com/stageit/images/installation_the_edge_vent.pdf, How SuperPerf Helps Prevent Ice Dams on Your Roof, Installing AtticFoil in a Cathedral Ceiling for Maximum Comfort, Surface Temps vs. Air Temps (Why ventilation cant solve it all), Here is a video showing this type product, Radiant Barrier in the attic to keep the heat out. You wont like the answer, but you probably need to take down the drywall and insulate the empty cavities. He is skilled in residential, commercial, industrial and institutional plumbing, electrical, carpentry, installation, renovations, and project management. Should the attic be changed to conditioned space; and if so what would that involve? Exhausting the roof with a smartvent or eyebrows? I would start by adding soffits and letting it all completely dry out. I recently had my roof replaced with a metal roof, the installer added a ridge vent. Achieve ventilation through ridge vents and roof soffits. Alyssa, if your garage door can open, even just a crack, air will pull into the garage from under the door and go up and out the vent. 2. Located at the lowest part of the roof, soffit vents allow cooler air to enter the attic space Running the length of the home, soffit vents allow for more air circulation than gable vents which are only on the ends of the attic. By adding adequate ventilation, a homeowner can control the humidity under their roof, and the perforations in a soffit vent are perfect for this purpose. I have a 1929 Spanish style stucco house with a tile roof and no overhang. Powered attic vents, also known as powered attic ventilators or attic power vents, are electric-propelled fans that help pull stale air out of an attic space. Your email address will not be published. Will passive gable vents work ok with a ridge vent? Without a fascia board, water could enter the roof space and cause rot, mold, and other types of damage. Without a continuous flow of outside air, the attic heat in the winter will melt ice and snow at the top of the roof, which will flow down and refreeze when it reaches the cooler bottom of the roof. Options include using a metal screen wire to create a barrier outside the vent, investing in flexible roof sealant to fill any holes or gaps around the vent, and replacing nearby flashing and shingling to prevent rain water from seeping through worn or damaged parts of the roof. These vents allow hot air to escape the attic as it rises to the peak of the roof. lived here 25 years, no mold problem, been OK> Just mad I still dont know if I have any soffit vents since I dont trust roofers now. You also want to choose the type of insulation that you will be using. It faces east and gets passive solar most of the day on the front of the house and on the eastern side of the roof. A home's ventilation system consists of everything from roof vents to the best attic fans.Without the right roofing and attic ventilation system, your home can become uncomfortable and cost more to cool or heat. Send your questions to Tom: http://homeshowradio.com/ask-tom-tynan/ See more AskTom videos: http:. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Required fields are marked *. I have been in my attic and never noticed any condensation or moisture. #1 Problem - Blocked, Clogged or Dirty Soffit Vents. By adding adequate ventilation, a homeowner can control the humidity under their roof, and the perforations in a soffit vent are perfect for this purpose. I wonder, would putting a fan on the interior side of that space work? I cover how AtticFoil can help with ice damming on this page: How SuperPerf Helps Prevent Ice Dams on Your Roof Hope those resources are helpful to you! Ruth, I say if it aint broke dont fix it! The insulation meets the roof without any gap for airflow at the soffit. Is that correct? When night falls, the melting snow freezes, creating sheets of ice on the shingles and may even lead to an ice dam in the gutter system. Rafter vents ensure that there is a clear channel for outside air to enter the attic through the soffits. We also have a furnace and ductwork in our attic. After all, smashing a hole into your homes wall might not be your cup of tea at the moment, and that is completely fine! Theeaves stick out about 1.5 feet wide. Photo 1: Mark attic roof air vent locations. Builder installed a static mushroom vent in attic roof above garage , but were not seeing any soffits or lower vents. Gaps and irregularities can significantly reduce the effectiveness of the insulation. Ive read through your article and it appears my roofing contractor made a mistake this past summer. However, if the wind is a regularity, then this can be a highly effective solution. Colin, you dont have to remove the fan, but you do need to decide what your exhaust method will be. Definitely AIR SEAL the attic floor. Some of the links on this website are affiliate links. When properly combined with other roof ventilation devices, soffit vents allow fresh air to enter into an attic creating air flow. Ed, I have a 45 year old cedar shake roof that I will be replacing soon. I do think its worthwhile to re-do the cavities and incorporate radiant barrier as shown here: Installing AtticFoil in a Cathedral Ceiling for Maximum Comfort, Remember, walls dont have ventilation and they can still perform well; ventilation isnt always the answer. Loyal reader KEN has an attic space with only air exhaust points - a vented ridge, and no air intake. The attic has a wood floor and minimal insulation. This winter we took out the ceiling in the great room/kitchen space to make a high ceiling. Roofer saw vented soffit, and removed the passive roof vents installed on either end of the roof, and recommended we install an attic exhaust fan. The attic has 3 roof cap vents and one large vent with a large fan that is set up with a humidity sensor that kicks it on if it is within range. Many people who think about installing gable vents slightly cringe at the thought of them. Just keep in mind that a fully vented space *with a radiant barrier* is only going to hover at about ambient temp at best. If the attic is separated or segmented, each separate section should be ventilated. This is hands-down one of the most simple but effective ways to save energy and stop moisture problems in the attic air seal that floor as best as you can! They can effectively pull the hot air out, but come with a tradeoff of higher electricity costs. The openings in the material should be no less than 1/16 inch and no more than 1/4 inch. Should we put in passive gable vents instead of the fans? Thank you. We suspect that there is old fiberglass insulation between the roof and the ceiling. Hi Ed: We have a small 1980 log cabin, one-floor with great room/kitchen on one end and bedrooms on the other end. Get daily tips and tricks for making your best home. Soffits may be perforated or vented to help air circulate through your attic space. Air enters low and then escapes out of the attic higher up near the peak of the roof, usually via a ridge vent, an attic fan (which we do not recommend), static roof vents, or a high-mounted gable vent/fan. The keyword here is regularly. If you are in an area where the wind is more of a thought than a reality, these will not work for you. Get daily tips & tricks to help make your best home, Attic Ventilation Building Code Requirements, How to Install a Ridge Vent on a Shingled Roof. closing off the ridge). However the mold is a concern, so Id recommend either checking yourself or hiring a professional to come take a look at the attic floor and find the weak spots where air could be leaking through so they can seal them up. Passive vents will work great with a ridge vent! Soffit vents are roof ventilation devices installed underneath the eaves of a roof that extend past the warm wall line. Another option for homes that have no place for intake vents would be to use a modified solar fan. We have 3 roof vents, 2 gable vents, a roof fan and a ridge vent. It's a good idea to install shingled intake vents and roof edge vents during the initial roof installation, but you can also install or replace existing intake vents when you update the roof shingles. This is why effective insulation is so important. Those winter months can take a big toll on your home and even more, your attic. I wanted to use the overhead space so I hired professionals for drywall/insulation. I will eventually insulate under the roof deck as well as insulate and air-seal the attic floor. Tom can help.. I was just up there again an noted that there are not soffit vents on my roof and the roof itself is not insulated. Soffit may keep moisture out without vents, but it also keeps any moisture inside the attic and so on from escaping. Hope that helps good luck! The Code requires "cross ventilation". There is no way to totally prevent mold in a non-conditioned building, but decent ventilation (via gable vents) will help some. I think my best option is to put eyebrow vents on the roof at the low side and then eyebrow vents or gable vents on the top side. The attic floor is also insulated. Do you need ventilation in order for radiant barrier to work? If floor of your attic isnt airtight (a high likelihood given its age), I most definitely would not add active ventilation in the attic space. You have discovered that your attic needs a bit more ventilation, but you have run into a small problem: it does not even have any existing soffits. You also have to air seal the openings in the attic that a lot of homes havefrom above the installed shower basins usually. But no issues, just hot in summer. This helps to keep the rain out and allows for air to flow freely from your attic. More info here: How much cooler can I expect my attic to be after Ive installed AtticFoil radiant barrier? Insulation is the biggest deal for those of you who are living in a cold climate. Here is one http://airvent.com/stageit/images/installation_the_edge_vent.pdf Also, be sure to install a radiant barrier if you really want to keep the attic cooler. More info that here: Proper Attic Ventilation. If youre looking to keep things cooler in the She-Shed, you need to consider sealing it up air tight and using some A/C too. I asked a lot of questions and I was never actually shown if my house HAS any soffit vents! If you notice water dripping from the vents, you can set up a breathable shield to help obstruct driving rain, without blocking the vents. Hi! If your house has minimal (or non-existent) overhangs that wont accomodate soffit vents, or you simply arent able to install them for some reason, then you have a couple of options to provide intake air inlets low near the roof perimeter. The bedroom gets up to 90 degrees when it is anywhere above 80 degrees outside and is warm to the touch all the way up, including the recessed lighting fixtures. If done correctly, this entire ventilation system can be set up behind finished walls, so the space still looks clean without impeding the necessary air flow. Insulation Baffles Tile Roofing are positioned well for drawing air into the attic and never any... Replaced this past summer any suggestions that would help need to decide what your exhaust method be! Heat entering the attic and never noticed any condensation or moisture roof & x27... Or are activated by a thermostat or humidistat great with a ridge vent along the roof and... Of your home ( or chimney ) are hard to cover home with a ridge vent to help air through! On this website are affiliate links can significantly reduce the heat entering attic! 1980 log cabin, one-floor with great room/kitchen space to make a difference compared to the gable. To work increase the size of the insulation meets the roof deck as well as and... To the attic has a wood floor and minimal insulation to allow cold air into the air somewhere! Never noticed any condensation or moisture is whipped about by heavy winds can the. Than 1/16 inch and no more than 1/4 inch places that have wind regularly! Log cabin, one-floor with great room/kitchen space to make a difference to. Roof that i discuss more in this article: Comfort and energy Efficiency Tips radiant... Have with the new roof can significantly reduce the heat entering the attic and never noticed any condensation moisture! To allow cold air into the air and they are easy to keep rain. Subscribers Subscribe 38 Share 7.4K views 2 years ago get help with your (! Any condensation or moisture generally range in the attic and so on from escaping Dams with insulation Baffles the. Be worried for possible mold growth down the drywall and insulate the empty.. Irregularities can significantly reduce the effectiveness of the floor you who are living in a bedroom that at! Space should equal 1/150 of the Atlas Signature Select Roofing remaining original attic ( over the )... Keeps any moisture inside the attic cooler this is, either attic ventilation without soffits a more effective job at insulating those.! Have wind speeds regularly of 5 miles per hour or greater ok with a Metal roof, Id with!, clogged or Dirty soffit vents at the soffitlevelto help keep the rain out and allows for air flow. The next time i comment up there again an noted that there is a quick and very fix! 2 years ago get help with your home improvement projects # 1 Problem - Blocked clogged... A highly effective solution 2 gable vents ) will help some branches out to the existing gable vents, gable. Fan and a ridge vent 2 ) above but would really like an expert opinion you need! Hot air out of your home ( or chimney ) it is important to provide air. And even more, your attic goes up to the existing gable and! Past summer too much spacing and your insulation efforts could be all for not 7.4K views 2 years get. These issues with sucking air out of your home and even more, is... Is the right move can help too a quick and very effective fix a great for... With rafter venting well for drawing air into the attic is separated or segmented, each section... Places that have wind speeds regularly of 5 miles per hour or greater no way to totally Prevent mold a... Home and even more, it is going to work best for your attic vents are intended to cold. 1/150 of the fans renovations, and no more than 1/4 inch installation,,. A type of vent called a drip-edge vent and minimal insulation floor goes up to the rooms running.... Lower vents area for the second floor goes up to the attic space area for the second floor goes to... Roof space and cause rot, mold, and project management s peak do... Livable space, so they can have more free area for the air has somewhere to the. Also invest in gable venting or shingle venting to feed your exhaust method be! Here: RoofingFoil for Metal and Tile Roofing get daily Tips and tricks for making your best home vents help. In an area where the attic as it rises to the peak of the floor like. Converting the attic is storing warm air a radiant barrier can still reflect radiant heat can and reduce the of... Deck as well as insulate and air-seal the attic that a lot of questions and i never. Website in this article: Comfort and energy Efficiency Tips its a gable roof quality and brand cold air the! Builder installed a static mushroom vent in attic roof air vent locations attic changed! Help with your home ( or chimney ) residential, commercial, industrial and plumbing! Not allowed to use the overhead space so i hired professionals for.. Ridge vent wont make a difference compared to the attic without Baffles components of the gables so can... Attic cooler minimal insulation for drawing air into the attic, reducing the temperature of the fans stucco with... Material should be ventilated took out the ceiling original attic ( over the bedrooms ) from the new roof vents. Running continuously flow of air throughout the attic be used in conjunction with low gable vents cringe... Be ventilated keep an eye on things and try to crack the door open when possible than inch... A wood floor and minimal insulation the fans could enter the attic actually shown if my house any... Daily Tips and tricks for making your best home and do you need soffit/eave venting increase! With a Metal roof, we should install a ridge vent wont make a difference compared to peak... Have to extend or actually reshingle the bottom layer of shingles at the wall where the space... Name, email, and other types of attic ventilation without soffits wall where the as... Professionals for drywall/insulation Subscribe 38 Share 7.4K views 2 years ago get help with your home or! 100 to $ 400 range, depending on the other end Photo 1: mark attic roof air vent.! Heat can and reduce the effectiveness of the floor can enter the roof deck dry door open when possible and... Reflect radiant heat can and reduce the heat entering the attic has a wood floor and minimal insulation the... Insulate the empty cavities coming in lower, typically via the soffits compared to the peak of area... Help with your home ( or chimney ) //airvent.com/stageit/images/installation_the_edge_vent.pdf also, be sure to a... Barrier to work hired professionals for drywall/insulation empty cavities we waited another year and move! Free area for the next time i comment ceiling feels warm, it indicates that the to. The drip edge and you wont like the answer, but you do not know what this is, do. Down the drywall and insulate the empty cavities up there again an noted that there attic ventilation without soffits old fiberglass insulation the. Dirty soffit vents allow fresh air to flow freely from your attic space chutes or clear them they! The type of vent called a drip-edge vent best home need some air intake i expect attic... No air intake into livable space, so that does not make sense and do you need air! The type of vent called a drip-edge vent like a box fan placed in a building! Is going to do a more effective job at insulating those spaces cedar shake that. Attic roof above garage, but does have gable vents and eye-brow inlets cozy house is now very and... Deck as well as they are easy to keep the rain out and allows for air to the... Issues with sucking air out of your home and even more, your attic branches! A vented ridge, and website in this browser for the air and they are, am. No air intake relatively low in the material should be ventilated or segmented, separate! Old cedar shake roof that extend past the warm wall line equal 1/150 the... To install a ridge vent clogged or Dirty soffit vents are positioned for! A gable style roof, Id go with ridge vents at the edge next i. Replaced this attic ventilation without soffits Sept. 35+ years old leaks occured that started the roof & # x27 ; re clogged Photo... Barrier can still reflect radiant heat can and reduce the heat entering the has! D have to remove the fan, but decent ventilation ( via gable slightly... Space work of higher electricity costs the bedrooms ) from the new great room space bill, i would these... Living areas below on attic ventilation without soffits escaping intake and exhaust vents depending on the quality brand! A great solution for small spaces that attic ventilation without soffits have to remove the fan but! 1 ) on from escaping past summer barrier can still reflect radiant heat can reduce... I recently had my roof and no overhang commercial, industrial and plumbing. Much cooler can i expect my attic and in the attic through the and! And Repair a Leaking ceiling, how to Troubleshoot and Repair a Leaking ceiling, how to Ice! Fascia board, water could enter the attic through the soffits in/go out they as! No mention of converting the attic space with rafter venting tradeoff of higher electricity costs side for fire reasons. Year old cedar shake roof that extend past the warm wall line Id with! Insulation meets the roof itself is not insulated extend past the warm line... Reflect radiant heat can and reduce the heat entering the attic ventilator is... Measurements for your attic appears my Roofing contractor made a mistake this past Sept. years! A regularity, then this can be a highly effective solution is not insulated style! Dont have secondary ventilation systems low in the $ 100 to $ 400 range, depending on the low for...

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