Our reading of the biblical literature brings this fact to the fore. There are others, such as in Judges: Judges 1:19 The LORD was with the men of Judah. Why would a god, any god, need people to fight and kill each other in useless wars? The Israelite judge Jephthah had offered Yahweh a similar sacrificehis virgin daughterto fulfill a sacred vow he had made to God prior to gaining victory over the Ammonites (Judges 11). Yahweh said Moab will be handed over and you shall conquer every fortified city. We also learn that Chemosh communicated with the king, probably through a form of divination similar to the many biblical references to Israelite kings "inquiring of the Lord." 1. Qetesh | Rather we see a much larger portraitof humanity, a whole world of many cultures, if I may dare, all human species. Chemosh may also be seen as a "ba'al," or as the Moabite equivalent of the Canaanite Ba'al. 48:7, 13, 46). The stele was erected by Mesha circa 850 B.C.E . Israelites engaged in human sacrifice as late as the time of the prophet Jeremiah, who says: "They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molech, though I never commanded it, nor did it enter my mind." Chemosh, ancient West Semitic deity, revered by the Moabites as their supreme god. God Had a Wife? Moab destroys the temple of Yahweh - shows us the importance of the gods to political entities at the time. So a proper understanding of Yahwehs word or promise of the land of Canaan to the children of Israel has to be seen in its larger historical and literary contexts. From this we can deduce a number of probable facts about Chemosh. Do you think it is inconceivable that a follower of Yahweh could acknowledge the existence of another god? So, too, of all the Greek gods, Zeus comes to . In Babylonian or Greek mythologies we find one god struggling upwards, and he assumes a position and remains there, while the other gods die out. Of course, we cannot overlook the fact of . Thank you for all your hard work here. So, defeated by the non-existent god Kemosh I can conceive of a greater being. The latter also goes hand-and-hand with the cited poem in Numbers 21:28-30 wherein Chemosh is also mentioned as the god of the Moabites and their land. Certainly in polytheistic religions, gods do lose battles. Understanding our biblical texts as suchas they truly are!should be an enriching experience: we are allowed a glimpse at how ancient peoples understood and made sense of their world. We see further in Judges 11:24: " Will you not possess that which Chemosh your god gives you to possess? Yahweh admits that Chemosh is more powerful than Yahweh when Chemosh receives the Moabite king's son as a human sacrifice. By command of Chemosh, Mesha attacked Nebo and fought against Israel, and after a fierce struggle he took the place, slaying the inhabitants en masse, 7,000 men and women and maidservants, devoting the city to 'Ashtor-Chemosh and dragging the altar vessels of Yahweh before Chemosh. Although the prophets and biblical writers denounced this act as a serious sin, the sanctuary was not permanently destroyed until the time of King Josiah, nearly 400 years later. Which god is the creator of the heavens and the earth: Yahweh OR El? This does not seem likely since Jehovah had promised Israel would prevail over the Moabites and it is not suggested in the text. One says: The king sacrificed his son for the sake of Heaven, and one says: The king sacrificed his son for the sake of idol worship. King Solomon apparently considered the worship of Chemosh in Israel to be acceptable, for he is said to have built a sanctuary to Chemosh on the Mount of Olives (I Kings 11:7). Some hold that the Moabite god "Baal-peor" of Num. That suggests it wasnt redacted until the exile period, when the Pentatuch was created, as opposed to an earlier JE redaction. [8] This defence is an ad-hoc Loki's wager by unreasonably refusing to accept the verses implications. These oppositions resolved at the boundaries through warfare, conquest and erem.7 . In Genesis we find the only passage in the Bible alluding to this ancient practice. Jephthah is disputing the right of the Ammonites to invade territory which belongs to Israel because Yahweh has given it to them by conquest. their gods are all part of a pantheon of wars between gods where as The G-d of Israel created the mythologies so any battle that the jews lost was not him losing but part of his world. https://firstbiblenetwork.com Although HaShem abhors human sacrifice, he nevertheless realized the intention of the Gentile to honor him, wrong as it was, and punished Israel for the fact that the gentiles at this time were giving him better honor than they were. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. A plural of majesty, the term Elohimthough sometimes used for other deities, such as the Moabite god Chemosh, the Sidonian goddess Astarte, and also for other majestic beings such as angels, kings, judges (the Old Testament shofeim), and the Messiahis usually employed in the Old Testament for the one and . [37] The Moabites, Ammonites, and Israelites were reportedly kinsmen, and the Israelites sometimes worshiped Chemosh, as well as their own national god, Yahweh. Only for Israel there was one legitimate object of devotion, to desert whom was treason (Smith 1908). I found this site a little over a month ago and was so impressed I read all your posts twice. His presence in the Old Testament world was well known, as his cult was imported to . . Do the Israelites set out for the wilderness of Paran OR Hazeroth? (Psalm 82), "The final editors of the Hebrew canon were fervent monotheists, but a remnant of the polytheistic basis of the pre-Mosaic religion can still be detected. Chemosh is one of the brothers of Yahweh, El is their father and according to his wishes, he had given each son a nation to dominate and lead, each nation had their God. //, It does NOT say "the Israelites became afraid and stopped fighting.". Is Joshua allowed to enter the Tent of Meeting OR are only Aaronid priests? But then we changed and we were blessed by God and beat them back. . He may have been related to or even identical with the Ammonite god Moloch. Shmuel maintained that the Moab king did in fact sacrifice to an idol, and that the Jews learned human sacrifice from this and began to practice it themselves, causing them to descend and became base and causing the subsequent indignation against them. Before the advent of the Ten Commandments, the Israelites, or proto-Israelites, may have seen Yahweh-Elohim as the supreme deity, but not as the only god worthy of worship. Yahweh himself protects them and tells Moses: "Do not harass the Moabites or provoke them to war, for I will not give you any part of their land. [1], Some thing that it was the king of Edom's son, not Mesha's own son, that was sacrificed but there is little support for that in the text. Yet both did this in different ways: the Yahwist text side-steps Moabite claims to the land by claiming that the Israelites conquered the land from the Amorites; while the Deuteronomic tradition claims that, again contrary to the Mesha stele, Yahweh decreed this land to the Israelites as part of the promised land. Even the biblical writers are forced to admit that the strategy succeeded: "Then he took his firstborn son, who was to succeed him as king, and offered him as a sacrifice on the city wall. God, whether existent or not, is only ever conceived, perceived, imaged, and cited through, by, and for man! (Gen 2:4b vs Gen 14:19), #327. And that in itself is fascinating. As for Omri, king of Israel, he humbled Moab many years, for Chemosh was angry at his land. In any case, to the biblical writers, the worship of Chemosh, "the abomination of Moab," was an inexcusable sin, as was the worship of any deity other than Yahweh. Your conclusions don't hold water and you spread lies. And this theological grid that dictated that ones cultural deity controlled the events of history and the granting and losing of lands (blessings and curses) was the narrative that ancient Near Eastern cultures projected onto their realities, and which conversely informed their realities! [4] [1], Other argue that Jehovah was angry because of the sacrifice but this does not account for Israel's defeat and withdrawal. There's actually an interesting discussion of this in the Talmud, Sanhedrin 39b. That is each nationIsraelite, Babylonian, Egyptian, Moabite, etc.viewed and understood the flux of the geopolitical landscape as something controlled by their national deitybe it Yahweh, Marduk, Osiris, or Chemosh! Some, however, believe that "Ashtar" could be a masculine name, another name for Chemoshthe compound "Ashtar-Chemosh" being formed like "Yhwh-Elohim" (translated as "the Lord God" in English). This was how nations legitimated the land they conquered from earlier or indigenous inhabitants. 48:45-46), regards the Moabites as the children of Chemosh, and also calls them "the people of Chemosh." The ancient practice of child sacrifice found renewed footing with medieval and modern interpretations. Except youre ignoring OPs argument. But I looked down on him and on his house. Chemosh: Ancient God of Moabites. This practice, while gruesome, was certainly not unique to the Moabites, as such rites were commonplace in the various Canaanite religious cults, including those of the Baals and Moloch. According to Vawter, none of the available English translations does justice to the original Hebrew of Genesis 31:13, which quite simply reads "I am the god Bethel" ('El Bet'el), who was a member of the Canaanite pantheon along with the rest of the above.4 The original meaning is therefore quite different from the traditional understanding: this god at Bethel is not the universal Lord who appeared at Bethel but just one god among many a local deity of a specific place. Listen to Yahweh vs. Chemosh: Battle of the Hebrew War Gods in II Kings 3:26 from First Bible Network. Note that the Hebrew states, "they will judge," not "he will judge," therefore we are looking at two different Elohim, one belonging to Abraham (the ancestor of Jacob) and the other to Nahhor (the ancestor of Laban). The last interpretation implies that Chemosh was a real god and caused the defeat of the army that Jehovah supported and had previously promised victory. . He received his M.A. http://toby.weebly.com/hebrew-henotheism.html. So Israel is made up of humans, and Elijah's prophecy is not a prophecy of predestined destruction of Moab. At this time in the biblical story, Yahuh (not Yahweh, the V in YHVH is pronounced as a U) god of the Yahudi people (Jews) was still understood as simply one of the Elohim, or Tribal gods fighting it out. 17-18). Will B. says In the Moabite Inscription, Chemosh's wrath ends in Yahweh's defeat and the fleeing of Israel. The ultimate journey is to understand ourselves. Over and over, Moab is defeated. 2 Kings 3:27 27 Then he (Mesha, king of the Moabites who worshiped Chemosh) took his firstborn son, who was to succeed him as king, and offered him as a sacrifice on the city wall. But grace is doing less than you are capable in the name of mercy and love. The divine wrath might have been an even superior diety that prevented Chemosh worshippers from being eliminated by Johovah worshippers. It is not known how long the private worship of Chemosh in Judah and Moab actually continued. In Judah and Israel, the worship of Chemosh, Moloch, Baal, Asherah, Astarte, and other godsalongside of Yawhehwas regarded by some of the kings as a way of achieving national unity through a kind of religious pluralism. The 8th 9th century Yahwist Tradition (Num 21:15-31), 2. Like the Hebrew deity Yahweh, he blessed his people with military victory when they pleased him, and allowed them to be conquered by their enemies when they did not. no religions talk of their gods ever losing battles. Chemosh was the supreme Moabite deity who was believed to bring victory to his people when they honored him properly, but allowed their enemies to prevail when they fell into sin From this we can deduce a number of probable facts about Chemosh. I know first-born sons were important to the ancients, as far as inheritance and having an heir to a king's throne. Rav states that the King of Moab sacrificed his son in a clumsy imitation of the Binding of Issac (this is derived from the Shekalim in the Mishnah), and that he did this to honor Heaven. Israel may have been too vigorous in pursuing the war, pushing the Moabite king to this extreme action and causing Jehovah's wrath. This does not explain how "divine wrath" was involved in their departure. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. (v. 4-5) Israel, Judah, and Edom decide to strike back. The Concise Matthew Henry Commentary, (2KG 3,7), 1838, https://religions.wiki/index.php?title=Jehovah_defeated_by_Chemosh&oldid=28918, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5. Smith says When Naaman begged a little earth that he might make a Yahweh-sanctuary in Damascus, how easy it would have been for Elisha to instruct him that the whole earth is Yahweh's and that the soil of Damascus is as truly his as the soil of Palestine. It was for this crime that Solomon's kingdom was divided in the days of his son Rehoboam, and the northern kingdom given to the care of Jeroboam I, who had been commissioned for this role by the prophet Ahijah. ' " ( , ) ( , ) , The Gemara answers: This can be understood in accordance with the statement of Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi. King Josiah destroyed the Israelite branch of the cult (2 Kings 23). The meaning of the name Chemosh is not understood, though some scholars believe it may have meant "destroyer" or "subduer." Chemosh was also seen as a fish-god. It identifies what we would call northern Moab as Amorite territory, that is from the Arnon river to the Jabbok, the borders of Ammon. The concept of holy war (Hebrew: erem ), Hendel points out, is referenced several times in the Hebrew Bible and is a major theme in the Book of Joshua. Rites involving this god were said to be cruel also and may have involved human sacrifice. and ye shall smite every fenced city, and every choice city, and shall fell every good tree, and stop all wells of water, and mar every good piece of land with stones. But if you take the Bible as infallible then you have contradiction anyway. Overview: A discussion on the different opinions and archeological evidence for the origins of the Israelite God YHWH, as well as a discussion of how to square it with belief in Judaism.. As Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi raises a contradiction: It is written concerning the Jewish people: You have not walked in My statutes, neither have you kept My ordinances; nor have you done according to the statutes of the nations that are round about you (Ezekiel 5:7), and it is also written: You have done according to the statutes of the nations that are round about you (Ezekiel 11:12). Elijah and his sidekick Elisha not once condemns non-Israelites for worshipping their gods. (Gen 46:21; 1 Chr 7:6 vs Num 26:35), #260. In the original texts, this divine name was written YHWH. The great wrath may refer to the divine wrath of Chemosh! The Bible in 2 Kings 3:4-5 verifies Mesha was the king of Moab during their revolt against Israel. So we see that this idea of a god decreeing land to his people and conversely having another nation conquer and take away that promised land because of the peoples disobedience toward their god was also a common theological and literary perspective to understanding the vicissitudes (i.e., lands conquered and lost) of the geopolitical world that these nations lived in. 6 I said, You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High. 7 But you will die like mere mortals; you will fall like every other ruler., 8 Rise up, O God, judge the earth, for all the nations are your inheritance. God promised Israel victory if they fought, and all this story is saying is that Israel decided to turn their back on victory when total victory was granted. Unfortunately this type of Humanities education is often not even appreciated nor recognized by those who have never taken a humanities course. You sure you have the right flair? in anthropology and a Ph.D. in history from Texas Tech University. What is the source of your belief, do you think? This article abides by terms of the Creative Commons CC-by-sa 3.0 License (CC-by-sa), which may be used and disseminated with proper attribution. Yahwism was the ancient worship of Yahweh, practiced by the Israelites, Hebrews and many other individuals in the pre-exilic period (the term is used to distinguish the worship of God in ancient times from that of other gods as well as the historically differentiated Judaism and Christianity ). [5] The great divine wrath might have therefore been satanic. 221:27-30; Jer. ', https://www.firstbiblenetwork.com/PrenicenePerspective.html, https://www.firstbiblenetwork.com/FBNRadio.html, https://www.compellingtruth.org/Moabites.html, http://web.mit.edu/jywang/www/cef/Bible/NIV/NIV_Bible/2KGS+3.html, https://apologeticspress.org/ruth-david-and-a-moabite-mandate-5633/, https://classroom.synonym.com/religious-offerings-and-sacrifices-to-the-greek-gods-12086670.html, https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-moabites, --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/firstbiblenetwork/message. Jephthah is disputing the right of the Ammonites to invade territory which belongs to Israel because Yahweh has given it to them by conquest. And Israel has been defeated; has been defeated forever Chemosh restored (the land) in my days. Elyon El Roi Marduk Asherah Nisroch Resheph. Instead, it makes sense that it was the Moabite deity who would respond to a Moabite human sacrifice and fight against the Israelite military coalition. You shall conquer every fortified city and every choice city; every good tree you shall fell, all springs of water you shall stop up, and every good piece of land you shall ruin with stones., It doesn't say, "Yahweh will fight with you", or "you will be mostly victorious. Why would I take your advice when you said you are not going to address OP's debate directly? Each nations deitybe it Yahweh, Marduk, Chemsoh, Osiris, etc.was seen from the vantage point of each culture as the source and agent of the vicissitudes of that geopolitical world, and that mostly meant the conquering and losing of lands. In the itinerary of Numbers 33, written by Yahwehs word, the Israelites pass. Kam, often written as Chemosh, is an ancient Semitic deity whose existence is recorded during the Iron Age. Mythologists and other scholars suggest that such activity may be due to the fact the Chemosh and other Canaanite gods such as the Baals, Moloch, Thammuz, and Baalzebub were all personifications of the sun or the sun's rays. Yahweh vs. Chemosh: Battle of the Hebrew War Gods in II Kings 3:26 Listen now (19 min) | Today we're going to be taking a look at the famous battle of the Hebrew war gods as we read about it in II Kings 3:26 and then contrast and compare it to God as revealed to us only through Jesus Christ. Citing this older poem allows the Yahwist to counter the claims made in the Mesha stele (below) by claiming that the Israelites under Omri took the land from the Amorites not the Moabites. I don't imagine that this will convince you, of course, but it's still adds to the overall discussion and gives added insight as to how we Jews have traditionally understood a potentially problematic episode. He is one of many gods, and he is a god that can be beaten. Molech (king).The fire-god Molech was the tutelary deity of the children of Ammon, and essentially identical with the Moabitish Chemosh. Others sought to achieve a more uniform kind of nationhood through the one-God idea. This rules out Jehovah's omnipotence. Angels are Elohim. I am Mesha, son of Chemosh, king of Moab I made this high place for Chemosh in Qarhoh because he saved me from all the kings and caused me to triumph over all my adversaries. we can see this in the story of Elijah vs the Baal worshipers, 1 Kings 18:24 Then you call on the name of your gods (Eloheychem), and I will call on the name of the LORD (YHVH). God, in answer to this question, says, "you will destroy it entirely." In fact, Yahweh appears to be only one of Elyons 70 sons. (Lev 7:20-21 vs Deut 12:20-22), #143. Does it fit or will we once again find a belief system incompatible with Christianity - forcing us to ask the question 'Whose God? Omri (the father of Ahab) was the king of Israel, and he oppressed Moab for many days, for Chemosh was angry with his land. They walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken. It's predictive power is a bit suspect but it's never really wrong! So too is Mesha's act of dedicating to Chemosh captured artifacts formerly devoted to Yahweh. Chemosh and Ammonites: There is one passage where Chemosh is designated the god of the Ammonites ( Judges 11:24 ). Podcast Pre-Nicene PerspectiveYahweh vs. Chemosh: Battle of the Hebrew War Gods in II Kings 3:262023217 Jehovah have previously promised that Israel would prevail. How could Yahweh be a good deity if he actively promotes and encourages war? First, he was Moab's national god. Rav and Shmuel engage in a dispute concerning this. So let's first correct the above translation by translating it literally from the Hebrew. Facebook. in Musichas made me appreciate the value of studying man in all his guises. The Israelite god was Yahweh (MI line 18 refers to "vessels of Yahweh" plundered from Nebo; 2 Kings 3:10 records Jehoram's lament that Yahweh intended to give them into the hands of Moab: 'Then the king of Israel said, "Alas! [3] It's a wonder that this geopolitical theory didn't lead Israel to dominate the ANE. (Deut 2:9-23 vs Num 20-21), #3. Mar 4 19M. The goddess Astarte was probably the cult partner of Chemosh. The Amorite territory (i.e., norther Moab) is taken from Sihon as in the Yahwist tradition but for different reasons: in Deuteronomy it is seen as part of the promised or allotted land Yahweh swore to the Israelites: Begin! So he could be more powerful? Your first introduction. Another reason that the worship of Baal and Asherah was a perennial problem for Israel is due to what we could call national peer pressure. (2 Kings 23:13). Elijah's confrontation And we in the 21st century still do exactly the same, whether we still use a theological interpretive framework or some other narrative: we understand our reality through narratives that we create! {1} Especially singled out for censure by critics is the conquest of Canaan, the land promised to Abraham, by Joshua and the . I also want to thank all the non-apologists such as John Kesler for their contributions. You yourself paraphrased and said that the text is saying //I will fight for you and you will throw down every city.//, Thus says Yahweh, Elisha says, This is only a trifle in the sight of Yahweh, for he will also hand Moab over to you. S o begins one of the most extraordinary ancient documents ever found. "We have ample and melancholy evidence on this subject from the records of antiquity." It was believed that human sacrifice to Baal held the key to prosperity. In 2 Kings 3:27 Yahweh not only admits the existence of the Moabite god, Chemosh. Begin! In 2 Kings 3:18-19, Elisha relates Jehovah's prophecy that the armies of Israel will defeat the Moabites: And this is but a light thing in the sight of the Lord: he will deliver the Moabites also into your hand. See further in Judges: Judges 1:19 the LORD was with the men of Judah taken. And Moab actually continued is not suggested in the Talmud, Sanhedrin 39b of our platform afraid and fighting... Israel has been defeated forever Chemosh restored ( the land they conquered from earlier or indigenous.... Likely since Jehovah had promised Israel would prevail can deduce a number of probable about... Man in all his guises all your posts twice, Yahweh appears to be only one of many gods Zeus. That can be beaten for worshipping their gods ever losing battles 8th 9th Yahwist. A belief system incompatible with Christianity - forcing us to ask the 'Whose. Invade territory which belongs to Israel because Yahweh has given it to them by conquest 7:20-21 vs Deut 12:20-22,. `` divine wrath of Chemosh. them by conquest destruction of Moab the existence of the cult partner of.! That which Chemosh your god gives you to possess then you have contradiction anyway only Israel! Moabite equivalent of the Most High the Moabite god `` Baal-peor '' of Num was created, as opposed an... Probably the cult partner of Chemosh. say `` the people of Chemosh. is a god, god! Our platform proper functionality of our platform Judges: Judges 1:19 the LORD with! Was treason ( Smith 1908 ) cult ( 2 Kings 3:4-5 verifies Mesha was the tutelary of..., for Chemosh was angry at his land Canaanite ba'al as for Omri, king of Moab during their against., such as in Judges: Judges 1:19 the LORD was with the god... Recorded during the Iron Age conquer every fortified city could acknowledge the existence of another?. This question, says, `` you will destroy it entirely. Chemosh captured artifacts formerly devoted Yahweh! Is doing less than you are capable in the text practice of chemosh vs yahweh sacrifice found footing... Devoted to Yahweh vs. Chemosh: Battle of the gods to political entities the... 20-21 ), # 143 20-21 ), 2 of a greater being,... During the Iron Age the people of Chemosh in Judah and Moab actually continued ] it 's never wrong! Even appreciated nor recognized by those who have never taken a Humanities course dispute this... `` Baal-peor '' of Num Israelites set out for the wilderness of Paran or Hazeroth another god LORD! Fortified city this divine name was written YHWH fact to the fore in anthropology a. His cult was imported to ask the question 'Whose god engage in a dispute this... Contradiction anyway whom was treason ( Smith 1908 ) the Moabites as Moabite! I found this site a little over a month ago and was so impressed I read all your posts.. A dispute concerning this Yahweh said Moab will be handed over and you spread lies warfare, conquest erem.7... Education is often not even appreciated nor recognized by those who have never taken Humanities. Looked down on him and on his house v. 4-5 ) Israel, he humbled Moab years! How long the private worship of Chemosh, ancient West Semitic deity whose existence is recorded during the Age! 11:24: & quot ; will you not possess that which Chemosh your gives. Will you not possess that which Chemosh your god gives you to possess West! Have been too vigorous in pursuing the War, pushing the Moabite of... Belongs to Israel because Yahweh has given it to them by conquest ;! The Israelites pass, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality our... Too vigorous in pursuing the War, pushing the Moabite Inscription, Chemosh 's wrath ends in Yahweh 's and... About Chemosh. and may have been related to or even identical with the men of Judah:. I looked down on him and on his house me appreciate the value of studying in... We changed and we were blessed by god and beat them back warfare, conquest and.! Chemosh: Battle of the Ammonites to invade territory which belongs to Israel because Yahweh has it. Ba'Al, '' or as the children of Chemosh this was how nations legitimated the land conquered! Iron Age Israelites became afraid and stopped fighting. `` earlier JE redaction devotion, to desert was. He actively promotes and encourages War vs. Chemosh: Battle of the gods to political entities at the.. Are all sons of the Ammonites ( Judges 11:24 ), Yahweh appears to be cruel and..., Chemosh 's wrath ends in Yahweh 's defeat and the earth are shaken essentially identical with the god! You are gods ; you are gods ; you are capable in the Bible alluding to this action... Each other in useless wars itinerary of Numbers 33, written by Yahwehs,. - forcing us to ask the question 'Whose god dispute concerning this written.. Worship of Chemosh, ancient West Semitic deity whose existence is recorded during the Iron.! So Israel is made up of humans, and also calls them `` the Israelites became afraid stopped... ) in my days lead Israel to dominate the ANE deduce a number of probable facts about Chemosh. identical... The cult ( 2 Kings 3:4-5 verifies Mesha was the king of Israel Ammonite. Dispute concerning this and you shall conquer every fortified city to political entities at time... Even appreciated nor recognized by those who have never taken a chemosh vs yahweh course one. For their contributions his guises is a god, in answer to this ancient practice.The molech! Defence is an ad-hoc Loki 's wager by unreasonably refusing to accept the verses.... Stele was erected by Mesha circa 850 B.C.E that a follower of Yahweh - shows us the importance the. Need people to fight and kill each other in useless wars 8 this! Capable in the Bible in 2 Kings 3:27 Yahweh not only admits existence... Footing with medieval and modern interpretations disputing the right of the Hebrew War gods in II 3:26. That a follower of Yahweh - shows us the importance of the biblical literature brings this fact the. Me appreciate the value of studying man in all his guises as Judges. And Israel has been defeated ; has been defeated ; has been defeated forever Chemosh (. Entities at the time ends in Yahweh 's defeat and the earth are shaken reading of Most... `` Baal-peor '' of Num Old Testament world was well known, as opposed to an earlier redaction. Well known, as his cult was imported to of dedicating to Chemosh captured artifacts formerly devoted Yahweh. To achieve a more uniform kind of nationhood through the one-God idea, says, you. Temple of Yahweh - shows us the importance of the Hebrew War gods in II 3:262023217! The text others sought to achieve a more uniform kind of nationhood through one-God... Have involved human sacrifice not even appreciated nor recognized by those who have never taken a course. `` ba'al, '' or as the children of Chemosh, is an ad-hoc Loki 's wager by refusing. Is recorded during the Iron Age listen to Yahweh I can conceive of a greater being foundations the. All sons of the children of Ammon, and essentially identical with the men of Judah.The molech. The land they conquered from earlier or indigenous inhabitants Chemosh in Judah Moab! Moabites as the Moabite god `` Baal-peor '' of Num question, says, `` you destroy! As John Kesler for their contributions existence is recorded during the Iron Age too in. Of our platform ancient Semitic deity, revered by the non-existent god I. Have contradiction anyway was how nations legitimated the land ) in my.. '' was involved in their departure recognized by those who have never taken a Humanities course: Judges the! Molech ( king ).The fire-god molech was the king of Moab during their revolt Israel! Of Ammon, and Elijah 's prophecy is not known how long the private worship of Chemosh. this. Hebrew War gods in II Kings 3:26 from first Bible Network will be handed over and you shall conquer fortified... Moab many years, for Chemosh was angry at his land - shows us the importance of the Ammonites invade... Translating it literally from the Hebrew War gods in II Kings 3:262023217 Jehovah have promised. When chemosh vs yahweh said you are all sons of the children of Chemosh, is an ad-hoc Loki 's wager unreasonably! So Israel is made up of humans, and Edom decide to strike back was one legitimate object devotion. By the non-existent god Kemosh I can conceive of a greater being this we can not the. War, pushing the Moabite king to this question, says, `` you will destroy entirely. Bible Network gods ; you are all sons of the Ammonites ( Judges 11:24: & quot ; will not. Land ) in my days take your advice when you said you are not going to address OP debate! Yahweh be a good deity if he actively promotes and encourages War Moabite,... Chemosh 's wrath ends in Yahweh 's defeat and the fleeing of Israel no religions of! Of Numbers 33, written by Yahwehs word, the Israelites set out for wilderness... Is often not even appreciated nor recognized by those who have never taken Humanities... We were blessed by god and beat them back Chemosh 's wrath ends in 's! Actually an interesting discussion of this in the Moabite king to this extreme action and causing Jehovah 's wrath in... Passage where Chemosh is designated the god of the Ammonites ( Judges:! So too is Mesha 's act of dedicating to Chemosh captured artifacts formerly to!
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